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Post by nybowhunter43 on Aug 2, 2006 16:34:53 GMT -5
I have 2 capes and a fawn in the freezer. I want to take them out flesh and salt. The weather here is close to a 100, Is safe to salt them when the temps. are so high?
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Post by fishslayer13 on Aug 2, 2006 17:28:41 GMT -5
bowhunter-- do have have some where to salt that is cooler than that ? You only need to watch that the hides dont start to rot and slip before the salt fully gets through the skin. 36 hours for thicker hides thinner ones go somewhat faster.
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Post by AMC Taxidermy on Aug 2, 2006 19:46:32 GMT -5
I'll give you this advice. Unless you have an area thats climate controlled to about 50 degrees or so and NO humidity, I would avoid salting them until cooler weather starts hitting around sept.
I just skinned, turned, and salted a roadkill fawn lastweek and with the high heat and humidity fluctuations it goes from being dried out to the salt pulling moisture from the air and rehydrating and back again. I'm hoping its OK when it comes time to go off to the tannery.
Thats just my experience with summer salting. I had the same problem with an elk last year around this time while it was salting.
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Post by mountman on Aug 2, 2006 21:01:36 GMT -5
if i absolutely had to salt dry one this time of year I would definately put a fan on it, even then with the humidity we have here right now not sure it would help much
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Post by nybowhunter43 on Aug 2, 2006 21:05:37 GMT -5
Thanks Guy's.. I think i'll wait untill the heat breaks..
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Post by jrosbor on Aug 3, 2006 15:02:27 GMT -5
Maybe it's just me... I see no reason to go against the grain here. Ambient temperature has little to do with the salting stage. The bacteria that concerns you also works when the skin is frozen or dried with salt, it just works a lot slower. The salt starts to work as it is aplied to the skin. If it is real humid in the area I would just keep them in the freezer untill the air is a bit dryer. I have seen this time of year the skin will not dry rock hard but as long as it is not dripping fluid you should be fine. The general rule is, Salt 24, salt 24, pickle. No need to dry it rock hard. Many larger tanneries do not even salt capes if they can pickle them right away. Again, take a look at this post on taxidermy.net www.taxidermy.net/forums/TanningArticles/05/k/052125758E.htmlThis was the "10 capes in two days" kicking match with wilson.
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Post by fishslayer13 on Aug 3, 2006 16:24:40 GMT -5
I would politely disagree. Ambient temp has everything in the world to do with salting. In tests we have run (on a moose skin) when the skin was tested at 10 hours of salting it had 74 % less salt content than at 30 hours. this leads me to believe that salt doesn't have enough impact on a skin in the first 10 hours. I can leave a skin out here in 90 degree temps and it will start getting loose hair in 3 hours and fully start slipping in 8. My conclusion is that temp means everything. Just as with salting in temps 32 degrees and under the hide will freeze on the non salted side and stop full penetration of the salt. If picked up to dry while still frozen it will be loose haired or fall apart upon re hydration. As far as being raw frozen , bacteria are inert until thawed. Salted hides are attacked by a different kind of bacteria than when raw. I always tell all my clients to flint dry their skins hard. The numbers and types of molds and Bactria that effect a skin when its damp salted are huge. Thats why many a tannery has in there brochure that damp skins will more than likely slip. I'm not trying to start an argument but these are thing I know first hand to be true.
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Post by jrosbor on Aug 3, 2006 19:48:29 GMT -5
I also politely disagree. The idea of the salt is not to put salt in the skin (affluent) but rather take something (moisture) out (effluent). This was another kicking match between Glen C. and George R. on taxidermy.net. I too have done lots of testing on various types of skin. Salt does not absorb faster at a higher ambient temp, but it does absorb more. Humid conditions do play a role in this though. Other than your comment about loose hair after 3hrs, the fastest I had ever heard of hair starting to slip is 4hrs by Glen Conley that had chemical slip (not bacteria). Again please look at the "STOP-ROT Save" deer. www.taxidermy.net/forums/DeerTaxiArticles/05/l/05F36C309A.htmlAgain, if we were looking to put things (salt) into the hide there are options like STOP-ROT which would retard any bacterial or chemical reactions taking place in the skin under adverse conditions. As of right now the only option to remove things (extracellular fluid) from the hide is to use an astringent type material. Or let the skin air dry in which the bacteria problem becomes more present at higher ambient temps. In one of the tests I have going right now it is a set of salted hides that were stored in a very humid basement for 9months. The hides never dried rock hard but were limp the whole time. Temps ranged from 60-95deg. with 90+ humidity. One of the hides had some hair starting to slip. The full extent of this test will not be known until the hides are tanned and finished. One final note about salt. Salt in itself is a preservative. This is why it is used in wet and dry foods to keep them from spoiling. You can do a simple test to see this. Take two glasses, fill them half full of water. Add one teaspoon of salt to one of the glasses. Spit in both of them and stir them up. Check them every day and see when the water starts to turn cloudy. The best idea in this application would be to use STOP-ROT up front as the cape thaws. I hope this clears up my opinion on the topic. Again these are just my opinions.
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Post by fishslayer13 on Aug 3, 2006 21:23:55 GMT -5
:)Well I guess Im confused about what you are saying ---Quote The idea is not to put salt into the skin but to take something out. Next Quote--Salt dosent absorb faster at higher temp but it does absorb more. ?
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Post by jrosbor on Aug 3, 2006 22:13:33 GMT -5
first quote. You don't want to put anything back in the hide when drying it out. the idea is to take the moisture out only. Not to put salt into it.
Second quote. At lower temps salt does not absorb as much water as it does at higher temps. Add salt to cold water and add the same amount of salt to hot water. The hot water holds more salt. The speed at which salt absorbs water does not change wheather it's hot or cold.
Hope this clears things up a bit. Out of here for a couple days!
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Post by fishslayer13 on Aug 3, 2006 22:33:20 GMT -5
I guess my point is that the salt must impregnate the full thickness of the skin and collapse the inner fibers pushing out the moisture. This is why surface salt on a skin gets wetter for a while. This action leaves salt in the skin itself. If the hair follicle rots before this happens than the hair will be loose or in more sever cases slip completely. The warmer and more humid that it is the faster it happens .I know that this is over simplified but I dont type to well . Thanks I enjoy our discussion
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Post by jrosbor on Aug 5, 2006 12:40:38 GMT -5
Kinda nice to not have this turn ugly. We both seem to be well educated in the field.
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Post by oldterryr on Aug 9, 2006 22:47:46 GMT -5
why not throw them directily into krowtann - the best of both worlds - salt is good for mashed potatoes but i dont use it by itself for skins
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Post by riverrat on Aug 10, 2006 9:53:58 GMT -5
I have not salted for a long time, when I did I tried to control the temp. around 50 to70 degrees, and have a fan on the rack. Now I go right to the presure tanner from the first fleshing for one hour, then the final fleshing and back to the tanner for eight hours done.
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Post by nybowhunter43 on Aug 10, 2006 19:38:42 GMT -5
The weather broke here and I salted the hide without a problem so far.. I salted twice and kept a fan on it.. All seems to be ok.. Next set of da's off I will do the rehidration and pickle..
Thanks for all the advice.
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